How about some honesty...rather than - it's coming soon, it will be here by the end of..., it will be here at the first week of..., - why not just tell the truth.
 
It is extremely unprofessional to put an expectation in the community and then continue to move the release date further and further out.
 
Throwing out little teasers along the way and then failing to deliver, damages the ViArt reputation and undermines confidence in the management team. Likewise, it does little to pacify the masses.
 
So be brave, hold your chin up and shoot straight with the community. Tell us the truth and why all the delays. Anything short of the truth paints a picture of software development chaos and project mismanagement. Do you really have your act together as a company or are you all a bunch of programmers bouncing off the wall.
 
Seriously, the new release has been promised for nearly two months now. Either new features are being added or the new code performs so badly during in-house beta testing that it can't be released.
 
Either way, stop playing around with the community. Level with us. Trust us to support you. We understand who ViArt is and where ViArt stand in the world of PHP shopping carts. I believe many of us support the ViArt product because of that status.
 
Don't treat us like imbeciles. We what an honest relationship between you, management and developers and us, the users.
 
Anything short of that...well why would we want to continue supporting you?
 
So, here is your chance...deliver the new version or tell us truthfully when it will be delivered or tell us why there have been numerous delays. The choice is yours to make. Our choice as a community will be to judge you on your honesty and sincerity.
 
Thanks

Do we really need to have contributions like this?
 
I have had such excellent support from Viart over the years that I feel confident they are working hard to give us the best product they can.
 
The choice is yours actually.
You are not obliged to use VIART so any veiled threat to go elsewhere will cut little ice with the many loyal users.
 
In the past VIART has been criticised for being too hasty and buggy. This time I am waiting patiently in the expectation of a excellent solid release.
 
Last year I was told by Viart that they were aiming for end January - not a promise. We are only two weeks beyond that date. Doesn't feel suicidal enough to become abusive?
 
Chris

I agree with Chris entirely. Joe, you need to relax. Like Chris said, I have also had excellent customer service from the ViArt team over the years.
 
The ViArt programmers, as I can imagine, are working hard to complete the first stage of the new release. They do not need people like yourself pestering them about a release date. Be patient, the release will come.
 
Or would you prefer an unstable edition, full of bugs and features in which don't work.
 
I doubt anyone else on this forum will support your opinion.
 
Nathan

I understand both sides of the situation. As it has been over a year (or about that) since a new version has been released, I do see the need to get an update.
 
HOWEVER, I don't want something that's not ready to be sent out. As I have been with ViArt for quite some time, and have been a strong part of the community over the years, I would not leave ViArt due to a new release being delayed.
 
I don't want false ideas on release dates however, as when they did give out a date for a release (end of last week), I had set my schedule to being working on the new version. Then, it was not delivered, and my schedule fell through.
 
I will no longer await the new version, I will be satisfied with the version I have now. Once it is released, I will then go forth and plan my implementation process.
 
In short.
-I am not leaving ViArt
-I don't want a release that's buggy; I'd rather wait.
-I don't want false/unrealistic promises.
-I'm excited for the new release
 
On a side note, this is a community. It's not just a software. Having the software, with a poor community, I would also go elsewhere. Anyone who wants to leave the community, can call their local u-haul (movers), and ship out to a new company with maybe a more organized company, but crappy community and software with less features.

Good points, Dan, fairly made.
 
I never get anxious about dates as any delay does not stop my shop doing good business and making money.
 
I agree that it can be a bit irksome when dates slip but that's about as strong as I will put it; I am sure we will all be delighted when it comes and I, for one, will get there without any discernable increase in my blood pressure.
 
Chris

I think the forest is being missed because of the trees. The overall point that is being made is a request for honesty and transparency. Does any company on the planet owe their followers and users such basic human expectations? No, and many don't.
 
Yet, you can get stuck on the details of the writing and respond in like manner, but again, the point is about shooting straight with the community. How could anybody have a problem with that?
 
Software development is difficult. Timelines are often promised and missed. This is in part expected and to some degree acceptable. But what isn't acceptable is the lack of communication on the process and "the keeping the community in the dark."
 
Maybe the contributors feel differently. Maybe they have a longer threshold on matters such as this. But we all have our "enough is enough" and if those above haven't reached it yet, I imagine they might if by March we are still waiting.
 
The fact that I am calling this out now, shouldn't be an issue with anyone really. It is just my take on a company and its deliverable procedures. Because the bottom line is this: it is okay to keep any company accountable, accurate and engaged with the consumer. Anything less is disrespectful.
 
The ViARt community appears active and in love with the product. I wonder if Viart really appreciates the community. I wonder how much focus and attention they pay to the community. There are great resources here in the community. In fact, those above are regular contributors and often fill in the holes that support often misses.
 
Okay, I need to cut this short…meeting coming up. Maybe more later.

C'mon, Joe. Most of us have some inkling of what it takes to roll good software out the door... it's a complex undertaking and even the best laid plans, intentions and estimates can go awry. The ViArt people have created one of the most feature-rich (AND affordable) shopping cart systems available, are not greedy and ARE service-oriented. I am eager for the new version, as we all are, but want to give ViArt the "space" or breathing room to get this done right before release.

Hmmm, again the point may have been missed.
 
Transparency and Honesty...is that too much to ask? If it is then it says alot about the company.
 
If ViArt valued the community, then way not a,
 
"Hi gang, wow, this new version is moving along as planned but as you can imagine, there are a lot of moving pieces. Everything from testing to last minutes adds...bottom line, we want to make it right out the gate. With that said, while we have missed our last two "possible" release dates, we are aiming for xxx. Know that we are working really hard at this and we really value all the feedback and support. Our commitment to you, the community, is to keep you informed as best as we can. Again, thanks to you all, the critics and the kudos...we appreciate it all."
 
Seriously guys, (viart and community) is something like that too much to ask?
 
Let's face it, as soon as Viart becomes too big to listen to the community and dialogue directly to, why stick around. I mean look at magento, 3D Cart, X-cart and others. And heaven forbid, look at Microsoft. All are examples of companies that care less about the community and transparency and more with, “what?”
 
Those above may want to cut some slack to ViArt during this “time of release” and I do agree with some of the core statements about the product and the company. But even so, companies are made great not necessarily by the products they deliver but more so by the people who deliver those products.
 
Do not take the eye off the target…it is not the product, it is the people behind the product. Business is a relationship game between person to person.
 
My point is this. I want ViArt to be the best it can be. I want ViArt to become a stellar company. There are many well established and up and coming products in this space. Building and maintaining a strong relationship with the THE COMMUNITY WHO IS ACTUALLY BUILDING THIS COMPANY (ie the customers) through honest and proactive dialogue is the foundation that will ensure sustainability and longevity. Such an approach is basic, 101, management.
 
Don’t ever assume a “company” (the people running it) always knows what is best. Inside and outsider feedback, guidance and suggestions are the dual engines that build a strong company.
 
So yes, while you can sit back and say, “give the guys a break” I say, sure, okay, but there is also a time when outside feedback, guidance and suggestions are warranted and expected. Is this the time? For some, it is obvious they feel it isn’t time.

I'm gonna let all you test pilots jump in & have some fun before I upgrade.

You make a good point lockmaster - I also usually wait for all those impatient people to find the bugs before I upgrade.
 
I must make an important point, though, whilst some users complain bitterly about the 'delay'.
 
There is a very good reason for the delay - at least one of the reasons.
 
Several weeks ago PayPal Pro announced that they neded 3D security to be in place if we wanted to take payments by Maestro - I do as it accounts for a significant chunk of my business.
 
Viart immediately put a programmer onto getting this installed and almost met the PayPal deadline; and when it went wrong got onto it and put it right the day I reported it.
 
This SERVICE is far more important than getting the precious upgrade out on time. What's more this unplanned feature and the support for it was not charged.
 
Sorry all you whingers I have no problem waiting a little while longer.
 
Chris

agree with chris, its better to come up with a bugfree version than to hurry.

Chris,
 
I have followed Viart for some time. And likewise, I know you are an active community member. And, you often give out great advice on the use of the product. I respect your support of the product and your "give-them-a-break" postings.
 
My diatribes are not about "some users complain bitterly about the 'delay'." It is about communication and accurate and progressive communication as the process is rolling on.
 
I personally find companies that actively communication with their users about patches and updates, roll outs and general announcements, a best-in-practice behavior that I deeply appreciate. Not only does it bring a touch of "humanness" between all parties involved, but it also shows a level of respect toward the users and more importantly, projects a degree of maturity of the product and reflects a professional management philosophy.
 
Unfortunately few software companies engage in true and open communication with their customers. Instead, their philosophy comes across as “hide behind the door, afraid of the users, and only crack the door open enough to throw the product out there for the users to devour.”
 
Now I’m not saying ViArt is in anyway that type of a company...but I am surprised that with the high expectation that many of us have of ViArt, their often quick bug fixes and reasonable cost for customizations, I would hope that, especially in a time like this, with a new product that has been in the works, which has been building anticipation for sometime, the company would offer more then nothing in terms of the new release process and roll out.
 
True, I may have high expectations and maybe I see ViArt's potential far exceeding that of the software alone and maybe what I expect of a "great" company is misplaced on ViArt, but the bottom line is this...ViArt is still a relatively new company in terms of its product. I imagine as a “new” company with a growing user base, the growth is challenging.
 
It is a very competitive landscape and it takes more than a great product for wider acceptance. Along with a great product there are many details that will eventually set one product apart from the competitors. Once a great product has been developed, it takes great company to customer relationships that sustain the momentum. Unfortunately, few companies know how to deliver excellent and superb customer relationship.
 
Chris you may disagree with me on this point, and yes, ViArt is developing well in this area…but, personally, I think improvements can be made.
 
It is for my respect of the product and the company that I offer that which I have written thus far.
 
All the best.

Joe, you do have such a lot to say

hi all,
ofcourse everyone wants bug-free software. But the aim of "Beta" version is to find & fix these bugs anyways. It is always better for many users to test the new release and give feedback afterwards. In my opinion if there are no security issues, the version should be released as soon as possible. I personally told some of my friends about the upcoming version, and they keep asking me "why has not it been realised yet?, when it is going to be issued? etc". I can not answer...
 
By the way I also agree with the great support from ViArt team

The accusation by Joe that the folks in the company are dishonest really galls me. Do you KNOW FOR A FACT, Joe, that they REALLY planned to release the software on Date X or some distant time, but TOLD us they were going to release it on Date Y? You are asking us all to believe YOU and YOUR premise, that the company has simply been lying to us. Who are YOU and why should WE believe you and why should we take your accusations as facts?
 
Or is it what you say, to quote Shakespeare, a tale "full of sound and fury, Signifying nothing."?
 
Who is the dishonest/unprofessional party in all this - is it the company, or is it in fact the strident critic? I suggest other readers of this thread pause, take a deep breath and consider... before accepting a tainted viewpoint of the company and its people.

Appropriate quote for sure.
 
I am not asking anyone on this forum to believe me per say. I do have opinions about what a great company and I do have opinions about what it takes to become a sustainable great company. To me some of these traits are very basic things. Some on the forum may believe in these qualities, some may not, some may care less.
 
In my writing above I have not used such accusatory words such as "lying" or "dishonest." Nor have I matter-of-factly leveled "accusations," called the company, "unprofessional" or implied that the company or its people are "tainted."
 
Maybe it is possible to read that which has been written and deduce an interpretation such as yours. But it would not reflect the spirit of my writing.
 
It is always interesting to write something and then have people interpret the writing through their own lenses and perspective. But interpretations are just that, a attempt to understand another person's angle, not by first asking the writer, but first through the readers own viewpoint, life experiences, etc.
 
Rarely does a reader stop to ask another writer, "So Joe, what is your point, what are you trying to say? Because to me, your writing comes across as ..."
 
But like most of us, we are reactionary, ready for battle even before we know if the reason for the battle is true and accurate.
 
I am sure Shakespeare has a line or two about that.
 
To answer your question directly, "has the company ever actually promised an exact date?" No, not that I am aware of.
 
Have they offered possible target dates for the release? I do believe so. Has missed target dates been frustrating to me. Yes. Can I get over it? Yes. Am I excited like the rest of us for 3.7? Yes. Do I perfer a version release that is more stable and bug-free than otherwise? Yes. Do I think the people at ViArt are good, attentive, honest, professional, and care about the product and community? Yes. Do I believe improvements can be made in terms of communication between the company and the community? Yes. Do I believe ViArt has a lot of potential? Yes.
 
I do appreciate the opportunity to clarify my writing by the few reactions it has caused...as noted above, I really like viart and want them to be successful. Maybe my words were too strong and the arrangement of those words potentially caused interpretations that I do not intend.
 
Organicman, thanks for your comments.

Guys,
I am loving this! It's like politics here in Holland. Never a dull moment and it makes the wait for the much anticipated new version more bearable.
Keep it going!

Basically, it boils down to the fact that there are 2 kinds of people: those who are always on time and keep their promises and those who don't seem to care if they're a bit late and wonder why the other people are making such a fuzz about such small things.
I consider myself to be in the first camp.

To me v3.6 is just reaching stable, personally I only migrated to the 3.6 release mid 2009 which after some adaptation it proves a very stable and feature rich platform which exactly fits my business model
 
Looking forward to 3.7 but happy to let the eager people test it first :)

Interesting ... Very interesting...
 
All this post does is confirm how little attention is paid to some detail in communication. And at the end - if someone steps on a toe to make someone wary of the real issue - you get told "it's your choice, no one asks you to use this or that"
 
Right you are! I have dumped Apple for their arrogance, believing because they have the better system they get away with all arrogance, neglect and insult ... why should Apple be the only one?
 
By the way, citing some regular voices of "you don't have to" - let me use this favorite of yours for a moment and remind you.
 
"you don't have to get upset if someone asks for "Honesty". You don't have to stay ignorant of the word's meaning, you also don't have to stay illiterate of the entire message meaning (there are some very good ESL training centers all around the world, one surely nearby you.
 
For heaven sake, learn again to READ and UNDERSTAND one's message and don't turn someone's message into YOUR message by start talking about something that is not mentioned in the original message and guess what...
 
If a point about "honesty" is addressed, why would you tell how good your experience with something is/was? If I'd talk to you about shopping, why would you like to change the topic to "travel" ??? WHY? Because you think travel is more exciting, right? So there we have it... No One is really interested these days in hearing someone but THEMSELVES.
 
That is another reason for why these forums are all crap, indeed and most of the time you only get to hear/read... you don't have to... or... you can Google it ...
 
Nice communication skills, folk, nice indeed and very professional too.

"Maybe my words were too strong and the arrangement of those words potentially caused interpretations that I do not intend."
 
I don't think so, not at all. As mentioned before, for the mass "YOU" and "what you say" is not important. Neither is important that you are understood. You see, as a human I have the right to understand you the way as I want you understood, not the way you should be because of what you say, but also what "I" want to say (because this is more important, too, of course)
 
Then I can just go on and attack you, even for something that isn't there but simply because I put it there (remember, what I say is more important)
 
Joe, you talk about Shakespeare. Are you aware of the possibility that most of the readers here would even know how to spell his name (how could they understand your original message?)
 
Sad to say but true to be ... there are some values (don't know how young you are) not present in our todays environment and other values have been twisted to such an extent that they are not recognizable anymore. The fact that "I" count more than "You" is immensely strong represented nowadays but also needed by an overall fading community spirit to grow it's "Ego" dominance.

In real honesty, a stone "play by play" of updates would be nice instead of random possibility.
 
If Viart could find someway to keep a consistent log of updates (maybe per week, bi-weekly,or monthly), the community would be satisfied. This is where the problem lies for all who are on the edge of their seats.
 
If anyone would like to pass the word, it may have some pull on the waiting list. ... Me included.

I think we should all just calm down and take it easy. ViArt has a good product, great support, fantastic people. So let us all have patience and some faith in them.

Agreed! I respect and admire the ViArt people and they deserve our patience and understanding.

Can we seriously just delete this thread?

I like Dan's idea best ("Can we just seriously delete this thread?")