Dear All ViArt Users:
 
I'm creating a site dedicated to having an updated manual that covers all the updates to the cart. I'm looking for everyone who's willing to chip in on this, and maybe help out with the fees involved.
 
I'd be asking for 5 dollars a year from each person who wants to be able to assist and access this site (this is to help out with just the cost of the site).
 
Please let me know who's all interested...
 
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Also on the site will be other items such as:
 
Customizations
Templates
etc.
 
This site will only be available to those who are actively helping out.
 
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Any suggestions are welcome
 
I'd like to start this at the end of next week

I'm up for it

Okay, so we have two now

Ok with me, Dan

 
I'm in.
 
But... I do expect ViArt to bring their own user manuals up to speed first. These basics are essential and it is important they come from the software provider.
 
Then the user community site can focus on adding to this baseline of official information - and we use the unofficial information and goodies at own risk.

Sure, even if it's not perfect it would be an efficient way to collect and sort nuances of how the viart cart works. You can email me for payment thru my contact page at visionimprovementcenter.com Thanks! Greg

Give me more details on how all this would work and from all that I have read in the past from Dan and Chris (both very professional and ethical) I am interested to participate and contribute.

Dan, something like a ViArt Users group?

Yes, I would be basically creating a site where we could host a viart users central area. We would have our own version of the manual that viart users can utilize.
 
We can share mods, ideas, templates, etc.
 
I'm looking for other ideas as well, so any suggestions would be great. I'll have the site live this weekend. For anyone interested on utilizing it, like I said, you would be required to assist in the cost and pay 5 dollars a year.

I have only one problem - I do not want to undermine this forum, so I do not want to participate in a user forum that does the same thing.
 
My interest is only as laid out in Dan's opening statement - how to use Viart and Customizations Templates etc.
 
It occurs to me that not only will we have conflict with Viart but it will become a gossip shop.
 
Chris

The whole purpose of this, is to create a viart users manual that's more up to date, create a better, updated .css, . We will keep all other viart topics for the Viart.com site.

Ive contacted ViArt to point out they might respond to the issues raised in this thread.
 
I have no problem with a site dedicated to a manual (and a Wiki would be ideal), however my main concern is that whilst manual suggestions for customisation of layouts and templates can be achieved safely at a "user" folder level, customisation might also involve modification of the core php.
 
Its therefore also important to have a Subversion system (see http://www.viart.com/svn_subversion_updates.html ) which ViArt are part of to prevent divergence.
 
So I would support this idea but have the same reservations as Christopher.
Hence "prodding" ViArt.

Please remember that many who buy and use Viart are not programmers.
 
Marketing people like me make a real effort to understand the technology but we still have to rely upon ease of use.
 
Fortunately Anjula, Natalia, and their colleagues are very helpful. Whatever is proposed must also take into consideration the needs of the npn-programmer.
 
My role is just to make money
 
Chris

At the risk of repeating myself I will repeat myself.
 
I think the user manual should be brought up to date by ViArt. It seems like a lot of effort would go into filling in the blanks by users, when far less effort would be required by the software authours.
 
Also, what if there is an error or omission, more user time is waster needlessly.
 
But if ViArt brought the manual up to date with the current release, a place for users to elaborate on the use of already documented features would be great. But then that is what this forum does. So what remains is a need for space where we can swap code (templates, blocks, other mods).
 
I know this is not going with Dans proposal (sorry Dan) but I think a structure like this would be good:
 
* User Manual - Written by ViArt - this is a given.
* Forum - this one seems to be doing the job and has good iteration by ViArt.
* Elaboration by users (experiences hints and tips) - again this forum is filling that need.
* Technical Swap Space - This could be the need another site could fill.
 
Personally, I expect prefer to get my support (and give some where I can) from a few places as possible. I want a resource not a hobby. Yet again, I expect the ViArt manual to be the first stop, followed by this forum, then maybe an organised directory somewhere would help with swappign files etc.
 
So as much as I appreciate Dan's initiative, I don't think the user community should jump to high to compensate for an obvious hole in the support structure - the User Manual that should come with the software. And stepping into the breach to compensate could be counter-productive.

Five5 - Viart appears to have an issue getting the staffing needed to get the manual comprehensively up to date just now. I am in my second year using Viart and I am still finding things for the first time.
 
A collaborative work that collects useful ways to use Viart would be very helpful - there are some good postings here but not in a logical collection nor easy to find.
 
I totally agree that Viart is the first stop and so it should be when Viart has the resource to make any efforts by us redundant.
 
I don't see this as a hobby but essential to get more out of this excellent program!!
 
Chris

Christopher, nicely expressed.
 
I used to be a tech writer and it's funny how many organizations never get around to updating their manuals. For some reason people just freeze up when they think of writing. The language idifference probably makes it feel even harder.
 
ViArt remains my favorite cart of the many I explored, and I just want to use it as fully as possible.
 
Greg

Okay,
 
So as this week is progressing I've got those that are interested and those that seem not to be. For those of you who seem not to be interested, that's perfectly fine, and I will not expect you to join the initiative.
 
I however am going to proceed with anyone that IS indeed still interested.
 
If you're positively interested, please email me directly so that I can keep track.
 
Thanks
 
Dan
 
carecenter1[at]tocdco[dot]net

Bottom line is that viart needs to update their manual ASAP. I can not believe they do not have enough resources to update their own manual. This should be top priority for them. How small is viart? I'm beginning to wonder if they are only a few people, which is starting to make me nervous...

ViArt is indeed a small company. They don't claim to be a large company, however they're a very good company.

I am not at all worried ViArt is a small company. Their product is fantastic and support also responsive.
 
Lack of resources is a problem faced by large and small companies so size is not important.
 
But I do expect any size company to bring their documentation up to date. It's as important as the software itself. No point having a function if no-one knows how to use it or worse, incorrectly uses it. Documentation is a software providers fact of life and is critical to the success of a product. In previous software implementations I have worked, if there is not suitable support and user documentation the product or enhancement does not go out. Not having documentation is counter-productive to everyone.
 
As viart.customer says, the bottom line is ViArt need to bring the doco up to date ASAP. I appreciate their product and support, but I am sure (as a regular user type) I am submitting more support request to them than would be necessary if the Manual was up to date.
 
Back to Dan's proposal - I support a site where the user community cares and shares. I am happy to kick in the small amount being asked to make it happen, but I think a better idea would be to look at augmenting an existing document with user contributions to how to best use the product, not create the manual to in the first place. Also, what happens when ViArt do update their manual, confusion would reign in the community if there are discrepancies between them.
 
Has ViArt made a statement to anyone on this forum about when they will have the manual updated? Has anyone asked? I hope this potential Manual Site is not designed to relieve them of their duty.

Ive held back with the response I got from ViArt as I was hoping they would be pro-active in this thread. Apparently not!
Denis wrote:
 
"We are happy to say that we have already focused our efforts on the manual updating. You can already see that some articles have been improved, and very soon the whole manual will be renovated."

Hi Ned,
 
When did you get that response?

Yesterday 12/08/08 at 10:37 AM

Well hopefully an updated (renovated) manual is not that far away.
 
With that done, I would love community documented 'best practice' and 'improved' use of the software's features.

FYI - I've only received 1 notification (email) from someone that they're interested. Others need to email me, or once the site is live (this weekend), you can go to the site and buy a 5.00 membership which will be available. I'm going to be putting a lot of things into this site, and really would like to get a strong community of existing ViArt customers:
 
1.) A copy of ViArt's documentation (don't worry.. it will be credited to ViArt) - the purpose will be to enable us to discuss the existing docs and expand on the current documentation.
 
2.) A simplified version of how things work and ideas on how to utilize features in other ways.
 
3.) A list of SQL Queries that you can run to make tasks faster and easier
 
4.) A list of available Mods that we can share or charge for (to be determined by the originator)
 
5.) A new style sheet guide that will assist those that do not yet have complete .css knowledge.
 
6.) Templates
 
7.) Discussion forums for those that are wanting to discuss options and features. (ViArt's forums should most likely be the method for most discussions, but if it's about something on the site, then you can discuss it there).
 
There will be a whole lot more, and I'm looking to really get a good community going. Something the site will not tolerate is bashing of the ViArt system. If the program is not for you, then that's fine. But we the users of the ViArt system that really love the product, really don't want to hear the bashing.
 
ALSO!!! I'm going to see if I can get my tech team together to assist in building mods that would be official add-on's to the ViArt system. What does that mean? It means that it's an ADD-ON, and not something that will be over-written by ViArt Upgrades. We're thinking of having you just add the link to your bookmarks and simply changing the title of 'bookmarks' to 'Extension Modules' or something of the sort.
 
Any ideas from anyone else?

I think what Dan is proposing is a great idea. What I'd maybe suggest is that there be a tiered membership, with greater privileges going to those who support the site. The reason I mention this is yes, even though it's $5 a year, a trifle, some people just won't even go there if they have to pay anything. To get maximum exposure, and maximum involvement, I'd say maybe say that anyone can join and read/post in the general forums, but to get access maybe to the the mods area or some other forum(s), it costs $10 per year.
 
I know there is a great amount of knowledge in the user base, and we could all benefit from tapping into it.
 
I say, "Go for it!"